The following was originally an 85-post comment thread. I rarely got a word in edgewise, but a few inconvenient facts ruffled some Foxeteer feathers, right on cue. What was really funny about this dialogue—which spanned three hours and completely interrupted my pornography download session—was the fact that I was the only non-Foxeteer in the virtual jungle. I am the reason this became an 85-post thread from hell. And I’d do it again… The Facebook thread occurred on 12/3/11. The non-political posts and any and all identifying data were omitted to protect the misinformed. The “Not Z”s constitute about ficw or six peeps, all of one mind. The stuff in parenthesis is mine, added later. With near simultaneous posting at times, it was hard to keep the flow of the argument. The post started after Obama announced he was spending the next 17 days in Hawaii. This is just some highlights: Not Z Isn’t that precious? You go Mr. President, I’m sure there’s nothing in Washington, DC that just could just, you know, use a little elbow grease to get accomplished…I mean, it’s “just” the economy. 2 hours ago Like  Unlike Not Z What really bothers me is the total lack of compassion and this isn’t just regarding Dumb-bama, it’s all of the politicians who are living high off the hog while citizens suffer through the current economic crisis. There are people who have lost their jobs, their homes and their belongings due to the economy. Have a heart! 2 hours ago Like Unlike 3 Loading… Mick Zano actually, day for day, Obama’s taken the least amount of vacation for any president in recent history, but who’s counting? oh yeah, Fox News. 2 hours ago Like Unlike Not Z …right now, our country is in trouble from within and he’s going to be busy doing the hula while the rest of our representatives go home as well. OWS should be occupying ODC “Occupy DC”. 2 hours ago Like Unlike 1 Loading… Not Z Actually I don’t care how much more or less any of them have taken. The fact remains that the timing is inappropriate. 2 hours ago Like Unlike 1 Loading… Mick Zano we need a third party and have for a long long time. about an hour ago Like Unlike Not Z Join the Libertarian party. I did. about an hour ago Like Unlike (agreed, but the Ron Paul section, not the Michele Section-8 Bachmann one) Not Z I would have preferred that he stayed on vacation for the entire time he has been in office, the economy would be straightening itself out it would be painful but it wouldn’t be as prolonged as it is now, and you haven’t seen nothing yet…..My hope for change is that he is gone next year we can’t handle another 4 yrs of him, One last thing… to Barney Frank, don’t let the door hit you in the ass on the way out! I wish we could keep him from getting his pension, it’s sad we have to pay one of the main causes of all of this for the rest of his life. His ass should be in a jail cell! about an hour ago Unlike Like 1 Loading… Mick Zano …of course, the auto industry would have collapsed outright and we’d be in a full depression, but other than that i’m sure it would be swell. about an hour ago Unlike Like 1 Loading… Not Z Good UGH the bastard! Must be nice GRRRR 53 minutes ago Like Unlike 2 Loading… (even though this makes no sense and is directed at me, it’s my favorite post) Not Z Oh yeah… and that $528 million loan to a solar-panel company Solyndra… 50 minutes ago Like Unlike 2 Loading… (blah, bah, blah, scandal, scandal, scandal). Not Z Not to mention handing GM to the unions, and screwing the shareholders who had a stake in the company including Chrysler, plus shutting down private dealerships to go along with it. We lost money on GM and Chrysler we took a hit on the shares when they were sold. GM and Chrysler could have filed bankruptcy and reorganized, cut the union stranglehold. Instead they ran with hat in hand to the government. 46 minutes ago Like Unlike 2 Loading… Not Z Who’s bailing out the citizens of our country. The MEAT and bones of this country? The auto industry isn’t the USA. The citizens are. People have lost their jobs, their homes, their belongings. The auto industry was losing their asses to foreign countries who built better products. So be it. 44 minutes ago Like Unlike 1 Loading… (I agree wholeheartedly with that statement, but if you think the Republicans are the answer, ummm, good luck with that.) Not Z Some people will simply never admit that Obama was a mistake. He was voted into office because people thought they were making history. That’s not a reason to vote for anyone. 42 minutes ago Like Unlike 1 Loading… Not Z Biggest mistake besides Carter. 39 minutes ago Like Unlike 2 Loading… (the Obama/Carter comparison goes on for some time. They’re forgetting that Bush was the biggest mistake since Buchanan. Sorry, I’m switching back to porn.) Not Z I am an independent, but there will be all R’s on my ballot next year, I will never vote for a democrat again until this party is purged of the liberal progressives that are destroying it, it is not the party that our parents and grandparents used to know. 35 minutes ago Like Unlike 1 Loading… (And the Republicans are still the party of fiscal sanity? Please. Independent means capable of independent thought. Hint: thus far you haven’t had any.) Mick Zano the economy ended in november of 2008, i believe obama was a senator then. sorry you’re all just getting the message now. 34 minutes ago Unlike Like 1 Loading… Not Z Ah-hem, which party had control of congress in 2008? Yeah. 32 minutes ago Like Unlike 1 Loading… (Much cheers and accolades for that one.) Not Z You beat me to it, girlfriend, Democrats had the house, Senate, and presidency for 2 yrs, instead of helping of fixing things they pushed a health care law no one wanted, and is unconstitutional, oh remember this…… 27 minutes ago Like Unlike 2 Loading… (So Obamacare was pushed pre-Obama?) Not Z We’d better watch what we say on here. The latest bill passed that allows the military to arrest and detain US citizens indefinitely. 26 minutes ago Like Unlike Mick Zano actually, the congressional budget office states the biggest deficit creators were 1) the bush tax cuts and 2) iraq (why?) and Afghanistan, and then 3) fannie and freddie 21 minutes ago Unlike Like 1 Loading… (Oh, and that bill you mentioned is called the Patriot Act and it passed under Bush.) Not Z Oh… well that’s settled. If the congressional budget office says it’s so… I’d be more likely to believe the credibility in a report from the National Enquirer 58 minutes ago Like Unlike 1 Loading… Not Z Tax cuts are only a deficit if there is no control on spending, If I take a pay cut at work i’m not going to go out and buy a crap load of stuff I can’t afford, same for the government, entitlements are killing us, look at europe, it’s our future if we don’t stop spending 55 minutes ago Like Unlike 1 Loading… Not Z It is a proven fact that the government makes more money when taxes are low, there is more investment, more spending, you keep taking away from the people who create the jobs they stop investing and hiring and spending 54 minutes ago Like Unlike 1 Loading… (when anyone on the right says ‘proven fact’ take notice. It would seem to make sense value but a comprehensive look at global economies by Annie Lowery at Slate Magazine found no such correlation. For a recent example, look at growth under tax-happy Clinton vs no-taxes-no-jobs Bush. Always remember, Fox News is based on false assumptions. Then they simply focus on those few facts that support their ideology…and it’s working.) Not Z Precisely why there are fewer and fewer jobs here that pay well, dude. 52 minutes ago Like Unlike (Yes, the one percent are the job creators. Hey, look at that, lesbian bondage!) Not Z China’s is going to get sick of paying for us to borrow from them and give to other countries. It’s going to be rough when they tell us they want their loan paid in full. 50 minutes ago Like Unlike Not Z If this idiot (Obama) would unleash the oil and natural gas we have in our own country, cut taxes, get rid of Obama care we would be on a turn around like we have never seen 47 minutes ago Like Unlike 1 Loading… Mick Zano i wasn’t for the bailouts (dailydiscord.com) and i protested on ‘shock and awe’ day when we bombed Iraq, so not sure i need the lecture about spending. i have also found arguing against a slew of fox news talking points very entertaining. 47 minutes ago Unlike Like 1 (I shouldn’t have done that. Here comes the shit storm.)

(I had to fix ‘duh’. She spelled it with an ‘a’.)

(Dah!)

(Yes, when 1% owns 99% of the wealth, the 1% should get more money…er, great point.)

(Yeah, ACORN! Indeed, evil community organizations were ultimately our undoing, weren’t they?)

(Then came a barrage of Hollywood celeb bashing. I agree, the women on The View are morons, but the problem is they’re comparable to your candidates.)

(I agree, but who? I like Ron Paul.  He would make some truly horrible sweeping systemic changes, but he would also make some great ones. And the rest of the Republican nominees are dangerously incompetent.)

I only commented four times in this post, but I wanted that last joke and would not be denied. Having no life and living in Mountain Time, I had but to wait. During this entertaining rhetoric everyone liked and backed each other’s comments, almost immediately. An hour into things I started liking my own posts for fun. Each of my scant posts only received one like. Yep, from me! Oh, I don’t care about anybody else, but when I argue politics I like myself. Ohhh ohh…come on, everybody.

This is clearly a case study for some future anthropological study. To be lectured on the loss of freedom by people who either ignored or supported the Patriot Act and voted for Incurious George twice is a joyous event—one akin to zipping my penis up into my fly. Indefinitely disbanding Habeas Corpus, Cheney’s Secret Police, torture, etc…none of these resonate, but Obama’s…er, what did he do to expand his already expanded role again?

Are they correct about some things? Sure. Dems are culpable for 35% of our demise, but the fact that the mother load—roughly 65% of the blame—has been so white washed, I would say it’s a Tom Sawyer wet dream. Obama didn’t cause this shit and there aint nobody gonna fix it, least of all your guy. This has been my position for a long time. In fact, it’s been my position since American Idol debuted. I still believe, Sanjaya!

Republicans have figured out precious little since then. They lost their taste for empire, which is nice, but otherwise….

Despite that ‘occupy’ statement or the occasional independent-esque shout out, most of these folks are clearly not libertarians or independents—these are Foxeteers, or at least their comments can easily lead one to conclude this fact. Oh, and before all of you “libertarians” vote for Newt Gingrich, his record on freedom and individual rights is frightening. It’s the same argument, time after time. It’s Groundhog Debate. According to a Foxeteer, the problems over the last decade can be summed up thusly:

• The 1% are the job creators
• Revenues =  bad
• Government = big & evil
• ACORN
• Socialism
• Obamacare
• Fannie and Freddie
• Ground Zero Mosque
• Stimulus/Bailouts
• Dems ruled the Congress in 2008
• Birth certificate
• Border Wall
• George Soros
• Solyndra
• ACLU
• Over Spending (since 2009)
• Obama, Obama, Obama! That evil man
• Fast & Furious

With a couple of notable exceptions, a lot of this shit occurred post the collapse and the rest is quite meaningless in the grand scheme of things. But, I agree, it does constitute 35% of the problem. Yet somehow this is a definitive and exhaustive list of how we got here. But, hey, there’s always Fannie and Freddie and good old Barney Frank to blame. Congratulations, you understand one part of one of our problems. Whoo hoo! At this rate you’ll understand everything that’s happened in recent U.S. history…er, nope, global warming will likely kill you first. But don’t worry, someone will probably convince you it’s all part of God’s pre-rapture roasting.

Besides Birthers and mosques, we managed to hit most of the key “arguments,” or Fox News talking points. These are the same ones that have been drilled into their heads by the C. Montgomery Burnses of the world (in a coordinated effort to get them to continue voting against their own interests). Had the argument gone on 4 hours instead of 3, I’m sure we’d have hit them all. Yep, they stick to the script. It’s a sad, sad script but it’s not completely without merit…just mostly.

They think my argument is completely without merit, even though I agree with them on 35% of their argument. Yep, not exactly math majors. Look, I’m not talking about these folks specifically, but debate one Foxeteer and you’ve debated them all. That’s the problem. None of them have an original thought in their heads. It’s all rightarrhea. In fact, I’m reaching for the Kaopec-debate right now.

One post claimed I was “a typical progressive reverting to name calling.” She must be a prophet, because, sure, I’m calling them Foxeteers now, but I never did during the actual exchange. I was very well behaved. Listen, the only way to break your Foxeteer designation is to show just a sliver of an inkling of an independent thought, but that rarely happens (whether it’s a three hour online debate or a three year one). The only thing they can agree on is their hatred for Obama. They wanted no bailouts in January of 2009 and were content to have the Bush Depression. Just several years of carrot soup and everything would be right and good in the world. They’re forgetting about our bond rating and the fact the dollar would no longer be the global standard, aka, we’d be completely screwed indefinitely. But other than that…

For all of my “progressive name calling” I just mentioned some facts. Mentioning facts that don’t jive with the programming will often illicit a very negative response, like Pavlov’s blogs. My comments were just a few facts sprinkled into their bullshit sundae.

Here are the Foxeteer’s blind spots:

• George Bush (ranked third to last amongst American presidents and dropping).
• Dick Cheney (Sith Lord & war criminal)
• Patriot Act (very unpatriotic)
• Koch Brothers (the source of your thoughts and firmly held false assumptions)
• Torture (yep, by every definition in the book)
• Abu Ghraib (just some fraternity pranks that aided Al-Qaeda recruitment capabilities)
• Lying us into an unnecessary war (which one was that again? Hmmm)
• TARP (700 billion MIA)
• Bush’s unfunded drug supplement program
• Bush tax cuts (largest long term deficit creator)
• Bank Practices (sociopathic?)
• Global Warming (but there’s still 1 out of 10 climatologists who agree with Fox)
• Wall Street greed (psychopathic?)
• Overspending (pre 2009. Hint: it wasn’t pretty)
• Politicizing the Justice Department (in Gonzales we trust)
• The 1% now own 99% of the wealth (oh, and they’re not going to hire you, because you’re an idiot.)

Yeah, the other 65% of the problem does not compute…at all…with any of them. It resonates in the same way a feather would upon landing in a pit of tar. Did they mention any of these during the debate? Do they ever? Nope. It flies in the face of the Matrix.

You gave away your rights while you were reciting the Fox News talking points of the day and you were just as wrong about shit then as you are now. Did you notice the comment, “Oh, Congressional Budget office Numbers, I would rather believe the National Enquirer or some such?”

That’s the problem, dear…you are.

The non partisan Congressional Budget Office certainly has less of an ax to grind than the Heritage Group, the Koch Brothers, or any of the other places you derive your non-Euclidian Bachmannese math (NEBM) from. How are you so sure of your views and opinions at all? Wait, I know, ideology and misinformation perpetuated by a defunct news organization that rhymes with cocks spews.

Ann Coulter is the best at reducing things to one flippant nonsensical remark. A spokesperson for the Tea Party did the same thing recently on Bill Maher.

Elliot Spitzer was using the German economy as a model for potential reforms in our own, and this guy responded thusly, “Oh, so you want us to become Germany?”

That’s it, the argument reduced to one ridiculous statement. As far as the economy is concerned, YES, we’d like to be Germany!

Here’s the problem: you’re all going to elect the next Bush, willingly and openly, without the benefit of proper lubrication. Ask your doctor if Presidential H is right for you. Where’s that Kaopec-debate?

I may or may not vote for Obama, but why is voting for a mediocre president so frightening to you? Foxeteers still don’t get the scorecard. They’re a little slow…a tortoise on ‘ludes slow. Look, if Obama’s presidency ended today historians would grade him thusly:

Obama’s Score Card:

Domestic Front = C –

He certainly deserves some credit for avoiding a depression and saving Detroit (while turning a profit on the latter), but admittedly not much credit. He hasn’t turned the economy around, nor will he. Capitalism, the way we know it, ended in November of 2008.

Foreign diplomacy = B + (with still some potential for an A!)

In the most critical time period in many decades, with a broken economy and military, this guy pulled off some wicked shit on a shoe string budget. We’re finding out even today how the electronic war with Iran may have been even more effective than we realized. We could have saved trillions if we implemented Obama’s approach to fighting Al-Qaeda over Bush’s nation building. He used Bush’s expansion of the executive branch for the powers good, smart power. If he were a Republican, he would be hailed as Reagan Jr.

George W. Bush’s Score Card:

Domestic Front = F (I still have the PTSD)

Foreign diplomacy = F (I’m still on medication)

That’s what the history books will say, no matter how much Foxaganda begs to differ. Obama’s popularity and his domestic score will continue to tank as our economy, in its death throes, finally succumbs to decades of poor decisions. But, under Bush, we muddled through eight of some of the darkest years in our nation’s history. And next to none of you realized what was happening to our economy or to our civil liberties in real time. So until you figure out how we got here, you have no right to complain. You weren’t bellyaching when American citizens were being picked up off the street, without due process, some even tortured to the point of mental illness or death.

Not Z: Oh yeah, name one!

Mick Zano: Sure, Jose Padilla.

The government has way too much power. True. We spend too much. True. But Republicans have made just as big a mess of things, if not more. Add to the fact that you’re not even allowed to consider or comment on the corporate chaos inherent in our system…so how do I say this nicely? Umm, you’re not helping. Go drink some tea, skip the party.

To be fair, I don’t know if these folks despise R and D equally (a position I hold dear), but, if you’re only capable of regurgitating propaganda (hint: you might be a Foxeteer).

Again, I’m not saying your arguments are completely without merit, it’s the disturbing fact that you’re only permitted to acknowledge certain aspects of our problem. Sorry, but objective thinking is dead. The story of our demise has several chapters and the Foxeteers are only permitted to quote from the dedication page and the introduction. Whether you’re conservative or liberal, there’s no defending today’s media, especially Fox News. They’re a disgrace. And I will continue to say this to the chagrin of nearly 40% of our population: you are the story within the story of our time, and it’s not a very good story.

By all means, hit the contact button for a rebuttal. You’ll get a fair shake, because we’re fairly unbalanced here at the Daily Discord.